New plastic trim around some of the windows at Alley's General Store were installed without permission from the West Tisbury historic district commission.
Ray Ewing

Alley's Work Prompts Potential New Historic District Guidelines

The addition of plastic trim at the oldest retail store on Martha’s Vineyard has officials in West Tisbury questioning whether they should allow new modern construction materials on historic buildings.

The addition of plastic trim at the oldest retail store on Martha’s Vineyard has officials in West Tisbury questioning whether they should allow new modern construction materials on historic buildings.

 The issue arose when Alley’s General Store, which dates back to 1858, put PVC on some of its windows and corner boards without approval of the town’s historic district commission. On Monday, the Vineyard Preservation Trust, which owns the building on State Road, asked for permission retroactively to put the plastic materials up.

The commission ended up giving its blessing to the trust, but historic commission members now feel they should come up with clear rules on how and where plastic siding such as PVC and AZEK can be used on historic buildings in the town’s historic district.

Commission member Mark Mazer said the issue is especially important to take up now, as these building materials become more prevalent and are sought to shore up old buildings.

“Let’s really put some thought into this and come up with a real guideline,” he said. “This is going to happen over and over again.”

Buildings in the historic district, which encompasses parts of State Road, Edgartown-West Tisbury Road, Music street and Old County Road, are supposed to replace “like with like,” said commission member Nancy Dole.

She was the lone vote against the trust’s application for Alley’s, saying she would have voted against the addition of PVC if the application had come in before the work was already done.

“You’d be piecemealing PVC with wood and they’d be right smack against each other,” said Ms. Dole. “No matter what you did, one piece would look like PVC and the other would look like wood.”

Trust executive director Nevette Previd said the plastic was added to prevent rot. She took the blame for the trim going in without alerting the commission, calling it a “rookie mistake.”

The commission asked that the trust paint the new plastic additions to make them look like wood.

Some members were uncomfortable with forcing Alley’s to go back to wood because the commission did allow town hall to have plastic trim.

The commission vowed to poll other towns on the Island and the mainland about what they do for PVC in their historic districts so the commission could set clear standards going forward.

“We really do need to have a uniform written opinion on [manufactured siding],” said commission member Carol Sarason. “Because if people see that the town hall has AZEK, everyone’s going to think they can have AZEK.”

Comments

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Tue, 03/14/2023 - 11:21

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Larry WT

Most all Historical buildings on Island have Azec trim. It totally makes sense. The town Hall has it?

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Tue, 03/14/2023 - 12:50

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Mike Somewhere

Really,
Stand 10' back and I bet you can't tell the difference.
Of course PVC trim should be allowed - as long as the profile is the same.

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Tue, 03/14/2023 - 13:04

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Preserve Invest or not Martha's Vineyard

Its a dilemma that shouldn't be.
Preserving the LOOK should be paramount and not necessarily the materials used back "then".
We have 1 to 2 hundred years of like materials on these buildings and what is being produced now in like materials is substandard to way back when it was originally built. PVC trim makes sense to preserve the building and maintain a structure that gives value to property values and thus tax money for the town. Many places in the historic districts can not be maintained because of the materials and labor costs and therefor go unprepared. This is a nice trade off. Preserve the look, preserve the building and preserve the tax revenue and if it's PVC that's needed then use it.

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Tue, 03/14/2023 - 13:20

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R Scott Patterson Edgartown

This is really stupid! Should they also tear out all the plumbing and electrical to make building period correct? Hopefully the store isn’t using a computerized POS system, the horror. They better be using leaded paint too.

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Tue, 03/14/2023 - 14:48

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GM Wt

Please leave the Azek! It will be there long after us! I have an Historic home and wouldn’t use anything else… who can afford to replace and paint every few years!

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Tue, 03/14/2023 - 17:40

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Jane Chittick Amelia Island, FL

This is outrageous: meaning the Preservation (sic) Trust not using appropriate materials? Of course wood rots over time: it's why Preservation is an ongoing labor of love by people who are knowledgeable and sworn to maintain the integrity of a historic building by following The Secretary of the Interior's Standards for Historic Preservation Projects written in 1976. The Trust lovingly restored the 1672 Vincent house -- do you think you'd find plastic there in its >400 year-old age? Of course, Builders and Construction people can use plastic on their historically insignificant projects ..BUT! A "Preservation" organization that raises money from the public to preserve our heritage? Never!

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Tue, 03/14/2023 - 18:20

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Marty MV

What happens to PVC if the building burns? I hope it never does, but it is not unheard of for old buildings to have old wiring. Will PVC be more harmful to the environment that either painted, or unpainted wood? I agree. It looks fine from far away.

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Tue, 03/14/2023 - 21:25

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JT MV

I have a source for some gently used knob-and-tube wiring if the HDC wants to go full bore.

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Tue, 03/14/2023 - 22:58

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Susan Bucks County, Pennsylvania

Please, Alley's, whatever you change, do not remove the "Cans of Peas" sign on the front porch. In fact, do what is necessary to preserve it.

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Tue, 03/14/2023 - 23:46

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Nancy Dole West Tisbury

Fair article. I did vote against retroactively approving PVC that was installed without permission from the HD Commission. I did not say that use of PVC at Town Hall did not set a precedent because it is further from the road than Alley’s.
Both buildings are on the road, and highly visible.

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Wed, 03/15/2023 - 05:18

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Mark Acker Foolish

Let’s rip out the insulation and put horse hair back in. I bet no one could tell painted PVC from wood trim. I forget, let’s bring back wood single pane windows.

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Wed, 03/15/2023 - 12:24

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TJH West Tisbury

PVC needs to get phased out of construction materials in favor of more sustainable materials. The manufacturing of Poly Vinyl Chloride products is a highly toxic process with harmful environmental consequences. It is often produced in low cost countries/regions with poor safeguards. It’s time the construction industry ditch this material like the toy, furniture, outdoor and many more industries have done.

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Thu, 03/16/2023 - 10:07

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Bob Fuller Chilmark

Leading producer of pvc in the world and highest exporter to U.S. is CHINA.

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Thu, 03/16/2023 - 10:15

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Bob Fuller Chilmark

Where does Western Red Cedar come from? USA Lasts for many years and does not require painting or staining.

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Fri, 03/17/2023 - 08:44

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JG RI

This is thorny issue for buildings that are in historic districts. As the former head of our local HD for 30 years, and a preservation contractor for 45 years, there is no easy answer. The long lasting, first growth timber that existed when the store was built, does not exist any more. A modern version of the same species would rot away in 10 years. The options are rot resistant woods like Sepele from the far east, Western Red Cedar, Redwood, Spanish Cedar etc, or alternatives products like PVC/Azek. I will say that Azek when properly installed and painted is indistinguishable from wood trim,in most cases. It does however move differently than wood, which must be taken into account, the dust is annoying, it’s miserable to work with, and it is expensive. The advantage for most contractors is that it is readily available at most lumber yards - but usually only in 18’ lengths. The environmental concerns about it’s production is a whole different can of worms. The above mentioned wood alternatives are not necessarily more expensive, but they are harder to source, and take some planning to have on site when needed. Given my druthers, I would always choose one of the rot resistant woods, but in a pinch I have used the PVC alternative, and it really isn’t noticeable when properly painted. Some of the PVC boards come with a fake “wood grain” surface on one side, and a smooth surface on the other - the smooth surface should always be the exposed side for trim on old buildings. Our HDC, reluctantly, approved the use of PVC boards, in some situations, about eight years ago. After months of debate. I think the environmental issues are probably more of a concern, than the appearance issues.

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