<p>The Tisbury school building committee voted Monday to ask the Massachusetts School Building Authority for more time to sort through options.</p>
At a packed, emotional meeting, the Tisbury school building committee voted Monday to ask the Massachusetts School Building Authority for more time to sort through its options after the failed vote at the annual town election last week.
Len Morris: “People show up at the last minute and that’s the way the Vineyard works.”
Len Morris: “People show up at the last minute and that’s the way the Vineyard works.”
Voters defeated a Proposition 2 1/2 debt exemption question for a $46.6 million new school by 21 votes. Two weeks earlier the school project had been approved by a wide margin on the town meeting floor.
The school building committee now has until May 8 to send a letter to the MSBA formally notifying it of the voting results and outlining a plan.
On Monday night building committee chairman Colleen McAndrews, whose group has been working to develop the project for the past two years, convened a meeting that included the town selectmen, finance committee and planning board.
The options are limited and come down to three choices:
• Revote the project, believing that the plan could be approved the second time around;
• Request an additional two to three months to explore whether the town would consider a revote;
• Withdraw from the process, leaving $14 million in state reimbursement money on the table.
Only the current project that has been developed using some $800,000 in feasibility study money can be considered, Mrs. McAndrews explained. A second vote would need to take place by mid-June in order to meet a 120-day time period laid out by the MSBA that began in February.
The school gymnasium was full of divided opinions over how to proceed, and the meeting was marked by angst, anger and an appeal for all sides to find common ground. The Tisbury selectmen were criticized for their lack of leadership. Mrs. McAndrews urged the room to look forward, not back.
“This has been a divided process, but this is where we are. We’ve got to leave behind all the baggage,” she said.
Vineyard schools superintendent Matthew D’Andrea urged the town to take more time to consider the options.
School building committee chairman Colleen McAndrews (center) led meeting.
School building committee chairman Colleen McAndrews (center) led meeting.
“I feel strongly that the town should at least ask for two to three months,” Mr. D’Andrea said. “I fear if we go back to square one, nothing is going to happen . . . It’s $14 million [in reimbursement money] that the town would be turning away from . . . and I fear in the end you’re going to get a lesser school for more money.”
Tisbury school principal John Custer agreed.
“I suggest we take a little more time,” he said.
Many comments underscored the divisive nature of the issue.
“In my mind there were two votes taken and it’s now tied,” said school committee member Amy Houghton. “If there’s no effort for the town to come together and see if they can do something . . . we want to be a community but the way this has happened and the fallout . . . it doesn’t feel like a community,” she said.
Finance committee chairman Jeff Kristal said his takeaway from the vote was different. “What I heard was our taxes are too high and we can’t afford this,” he said. “I heard we need to do a better job to reduce the tax rate.”
But planning board chairman Dan Seidman said voters had spoken against the new school, adding that he believed the vote would have failed on the town meeting floor if it had gone to an Australian ballot.
“If this had gone the other way I don’t think we would be sitting here talking about a revote,” Mr. Seidman said.
Planning board member Elaine Miller took sharp aim at the selectmen.
Packed school gymnasium saw many divided opinions.
Packed school gymnasium saw many divided opinions.
“I’m looking to our leaders on this,” she said. “I don’t deal with suggestions, I deal with facts . . . I am prepared to go in this next direction but I want it identified clearly . . . as we procrastinate on a project that we knew needed to be addressed in 2012 and we sit here passing the buck. I want to hear from our leaders.”
The three selectmen offered no clear position, but said they had scheduled a meeting Thursday to discuss the matter. Town administrator John (Jay) Grande confirmed that only the selectmen can call a special election.
The meeting ran for nearly three hours and many residents and voters stood to speak. Part way through the meeting, the elementary school band began rehearsing in a room nearby, and the music filtered in.
Opponents of the school project bristled at the suggestion of a second vote.
“I am angry and insulted that you 20 people would presume to usurp the democratic vote of the townspeople,” said Tony Peak, addressing the school building committee. “People voted no. It doesn’t matter why they voted no.”
There also were conciliatory notes.
Len Morris thanked the committee for its work and acknowledged the reality of small-town democracy. “People show up at the last minute and that’s the way the Vineyard works,” he said.
“If this project is going to happen in our town it has to be a collaboration,” said Reade Milne, a member of the building committee. “We all live here and we need to find a solution. We’re all sitting here talking about what is a good first step and instead it feels like a last-ditch effort.”
In the end the building committee voted 14-2 to ask the MSBA for two to three more months to consider options. Selectman Melinda Loberg and Mr. Grande, who both sit on the building committee, voted no.
Mrs. McAndrews acknowledged that the next steps are unclear.
“This didn’t really get us far,” she said.
Comments
Thank you Mr.Kristal our
Tisbury voter Vineyard haven massThank you Mr.Kristal our commercial tax revenue must be worked on and improved so the burden doesn't fall on residential payers.We also have a large amount of vacant property of the tax rolls for the size comparison of tax payers and a town our size,our future is at stack .
We have one of the lowest tax
We aren't burdened VhWe have one of the lowest tax rates in the state. Nobody in Tisbury seems to know this. There is no burden. The burden is being borne by students in a trailer. The burden is being borne by students with 13 minutes for lunch. The burden is being borne by students who have to do work in hallways instead of their classrooms. The burden is being borne by teachers who haven't complained publicly about any of this, and quite frankly I hope they do soon. The burden is being borne by our top students who went out to hold signs urging people to vote for hours and were accused of being used by no people who are no neighbor of mine. If the renovation/addition crowd had their way they'd have students and staff bear the burden of being educated in trailers for the duration of the work so that they can save a few bucks a year on their precious taxes and keep their substandard school building.
The numbers are mind boggling
Ken Edg,The numbers are mind boggling. We built our school in 2001 for 22 million, half of what you are asking for. If I remember right home values were the same back then, it wasnt until 2008 they took a dive as a matter of fact we are in the same bubble now as they had back then. go back to the drawing board.
No, Colleen, that didn’t get
Tisbury taxpayer TisburyNo, Colleen, that didn’t get the gang of seventeen very far. The ball is in the Selectman’s court now, and they are not inclined to defy the voters, as you are, by holding a special election. Since the state will not allow a significant change to the plan, there is little chance that you will get your new school. You have wasted your time and our money by defying your community and causing a deep division amongst our people. We are not children to be led by your group. You obstructed the study of an addition and renovation and you do not accept responsibility for what happened. You (the TSBC) owe us an apology. We do not owe you a new school.
correction.............our
Really?! Vineyard Havencorrection.............our school
I'd vote for any of the
Admirer of the Gang of 17 VHI'd vote for any of the members of the gang of 17 for any office in this town that they wanted. And I hope a few of them give me that opportunity.
If they had voted for a
charlie callahan so boston/edgartownIf they had voted for a reasonably priced new school it probably would have passed, but $46,000,000 for a school for 300 kids is ridiculous. Remodel the old one ,that looks better and will probably be around longer than a new one would.
Not for one minute do I
Christine VHNot for one minute do I believe if the NO votes won that we would be asking for a revote. When you loose, you loose. No matter what we still cant afford it, and the State money is just paying interest, its not free money for anyone.
Interest free loans are a
Financial advice MVInterest free loans are a really really good deal. They allow you to get a lot more for your money. We are at a period of very low interest rates. The next offer (if Tisbury gets one) might not be so generous. Going forward if other projects don't have any state funding there won't be any reason to assume Tisbury can afford those situations either.
This committee has spent well
Max Vineyard HavenThis committee has spent well over $825,000.00, lost the vote at the polls, and now wants the folks who want a renovation to come up with a plan. For free. With no budget. It is time for a new direction, Tisbury, not a revote! Tisbury doesn’t owe you, dear committee members, a new school, but you owe the town an apology. Not one person last night apologized for what happened. How about getting some of that money back from the project manager. Then we can look at doing YOUR homework, getting an estimate for a renovation and addition. How dare you, an appointed committee, scold the elected officials, voters and taxpayers of Tisbury for questioning you, for not showing up, for not knowing how to read the override question, for not coming to your meetings. You are not only politically naive, you have underestimated the power of the people.
Dearest Max and Haters,
Really?! VINEYARD HAVENDearest Max and Haters,
It took a while today for everyone to fire up the hate machine today. It is really a shame that everyone continues to discount the fact that the committee did look at the reno/addition. How many times can they tell you it cost more for the same size building as designed to meet the planned educational needs of Tisbury. We saw dazzling numbers from Ben and signed by Jimmy about what it costs to build in Newton (FYI, we live on an island....it costs more), we heard Melinda make her plea for regionalization in the newspaper, and Tristan only repeatedly say it is too expensive. What you want is a smaller building that costs less and was not designed to meet the educational program that was set forth. OK, I guess you get your way. Please, stop the hate and get on a committee that will solve the dilemma and meet the educational programs set forth. I for one would like to stop looking at the not so temporary trailer solution next to the school. We could have a whole playing field of them during a 2 year reno/addition! That would be fun!!!(read sarcasm) Everyone seems to be an expert at these meetings. We spent the money on the experts. They answered the question of Reno/expand as we asked them. You don't like what our money bought for an answer. We will likely start all over again for something a good bit smaller at tomorrow's dollar. I doubt you will end up paying less in the long run. It will be a bumpy ride, that's for sure. Please stop the hate.
What I don't get is that the
MikeD WTWhat I don't get is that the indignation of the Town residents that did not get the new shiney school on the backs of the second homeowners.
Tisbury residents get a discounted tax bill because they live there year round. second home owners do not.
How can the year round residents expect the second home owners to foot the majority of the tax increase, for something they will never use or be benefitted from?
Thank goodness the voters (some) came to their senses and defeated an irresponsible proposal.
Gouging the goose that laid the golden egg- dare I say 75% of the towns revenue comes from the second home owners and people associated with the short term residency of summer.
Wake up Tisbury - you are trying to spend money you don't have.
Not a good image for onlookers- or for you.
I say it again - who would want to buy in Tisbury if this is what you can expect.
It's almost like a variable mortgage. You do not know what to expect as far as what you may be paying in the future in Tisbury.
It's not hating - it's just common sense.
Me and most people I know went to schools that were older than the Tisbury school - so what - we learned - graduated - got jobs - bought a house or houses.
Fix the old school, buy computers and whatever you need to modernize the teaching of children in an affordable way that fits the economic structure that is in place, not force a situation that you may regret financially.
What - over $22,000 per student a year - OMG - that's insane.
One of the highest in the nation - is that really warranted - are things that much more expensive on the Island than any other place in the country.
NO! it is not - and you know it.
Again on the backs of taxpayers that do not benefit from it.
All towns are culpable in this, not just Tisbury.
Tisbury is in the front now trying to justify a ripoff for tax paying non residents.
Wake up - the goose is dying.
The operative words being
Max TisburyThe operative words being "planned educational needs." Your use of vague terms to convince the voters without any real, concrete effort to study a renovation/addition proposal led to a rushed decision to build a new school was not so convincing. Of course we are going to get rid of those trailers, asap. Of course we will add several classrooms and a bigger cafeteria, also asap. We should fix those windows and clean up the building asap. We will work together. I suggest that you, "dear Really?!", get on board with a smaller plan that fits our pocketbooks. Enough of the obfuscation and rush to grab "free money," aka our state taxes, just enough to cover the interest only!
"You are not only politically
Tisbury voter 2"You are not only politically naive, you have underestimated the power of the people."
Underestimated not only the power but the intelligence of the voters. It was clear that the committee members were all school connected and had personal interests in the outcome.
Time for new blood. Time to take a deep breath and no longer be lectured by an hired-gun experts who, in advocating for this very expensive project, had a clear built-in conflict of interest regarding the price tag. Self-dealing all around.
A vote has been made....get
seriously Vineyard HavenA vote has been made....get over it and move on! There is nothing to re-vote on.
The Town voted. The result
Democracy 101 Vineyard HavenThe Town voted. The result was NO to this plan. You don’t get to “re-do” a vote until the minority gets their preferred result. That is not how democracy works. Selectmen, please stop this nonsense!
Such Vitriol! I really have
Really?! Vineyard HavenSuch Vitriol! I really have stayed away from that except for maybe a little sarcasm. I have pretty much just been stating what i have come to learn by paying attention. i am not on the building committee and i don't work for the school and my children will not benefit from whatever happens unless they have children of their own in Tisbury. I am not sure how come it so hard to understand the educational program the school wants to put forth. Who are we as a school in Tisbury. We have needs for ESL (English as second language) students. We have needs for handicap access. We have special education needs, we have exceptional students who could be even better with space that allows them to do so, we have needs for 2 classrooms per grade, Cafeteria size needs, maybe a library that is not so overcrowded we trip over each other and can't really have a meeting in, guidance counselor space needs, the list goes on. What the building committee realized is you cannot do it all in the existing space. So we come back to size. Simple equation, size=cost. What is left now is to start whittling away at space. We can either start from a blank slate and determine what taxpayers are willing to pay to accomplish a reno/expand (remember we want to get rid of those trailers) and design to that number and see where we end up. Or, we can start with the existing plan and chop away at space until we get to that figure. Please don't forget that either of these 2 methods come with an estimated 2.5 to 3.5 million dollar price tag for trailers to house the students, staff and administration for however long the reno/addition takes. We start with borrowing that money and it gets thrown away when the project is over. No escaping this reality. I am honestly ok with any plan that adequately provides for the modern educational needs of the children of Tisbury for generations to come. Windows an HVAC overhaul and some paint don't accomplish this.
I am going to really be bold and ask a fiscal responsibility question. Why did we spend 675k for a building that was built in 1880 for a future town hall, take it off the tax rolls, agree to 50k for a feasibility study and we don't even know if this will pass MVC hearing for a tear down. I could use the fireword from those magnificent trees out front that will probably have to go. Maybe there is already a wink, wink in place on that one. What is wrong with the Manter Well site or the property down there in Mink Meadows for a new town hall? We already own those and others. As I mentioned in other posts. We have a very bumpy road ahead in town and every one of these projects will need a 2/3 majority at town meeting and a simple majority at the ballot for the prop 2 1/2 overrides. We all saw how this one went. Buckle up, enjoy the ride, there are multiples to come. Let's hope there are not so many personal attacks on town employees who will volunteer their time on the building design as they will clearly have a conflict of interest. Remember, the price tag might not be to the majority's liking.
It has been heartbreaking for
HeartbrokenIt has been heartbreaking for me to hear reveling in my community since the vote. The people involved in the planning of this beautiful new school had vision, passion and were sensitive to the the needs of exceptional students. As a Tisbury taxpayer I feel queasy when I pass the new fire station, police station, SSA and new street sweeper. Town representative is a misnomer in Tisbury. Hidden agendas and skullduggery prevail. The backbiting and divisive dynamics I witnessed at Tuesday nights meeting was so very toxic. The children in this community ultimately pay the price.
When did the Planning Board
Doesn't work that way TisburyWhen did the Planning Board start becoming experts in engineering and architecture? They produced a hand out with some renovation photos and statements to the entire town and the ACTUAL architect who did that project was IN THE ROOM and said out loud "That's not what this is. That's not how it worked. This is false." In any normal town if a planning board presented totally false information to the entire town, and then didn't admit it when they were caught totally wrong red handed they'd be told the chair needs to resign. But not this board. This board doubled down. At the last meeting the chair said maybe we need to look at the educational program and plan going forward. What? So they're expert educators now too? When did that happen? When did the Planning Board get the idea it was their job to tell others how to do theirs? "Hey engineer who says a new school is a better idea, We don't believe you because we think we know better." In any normal town they would have said "Well. We know you do a great job educating the kids despite being in a substandard building so what do you think would be a good idea and how can I support it?" But not this town. Oh they're also big conservationists all of a sudden too. Big lovers of historic buildings. The Chairman of the Tisbury Historic Commission is on the building committee. He is telling us a new school is needed. Do you think maybe he knows about historic buildings? Will the Planning Board be so incredibly loving of historic buildings when the new Town Hall comes down the pike? I always thought a planning board gets things done. They build. They grow a town. This planning board doesn't seem to plan anything. They plan to keep things old. They plan to keep kids going to school on a 90 year old foundation against the advice of professional engineers, educators, and historians. They plan to turn down $14.6 million in state funds against the advice of a near unanimous Fin Com. And the other towns plan to keep laughing at us.
Did the new school include
WashAbhorred EdgartownDid the new school include offices for the Superintendent's office?
This is really getting tiring
Really?! Vineyard HavenThis is really getting tiring. MikeD Please, stop! West Tisbury voted on and approved an override. Was that a tax hike to year round residents only? Please, I beg you all to slow down a bit. 20 of the 30 lowest tax rates in the state are to coastal communities who all live off the non-residents for their infrastructure. Pretty sure West Tisbury is in that 20. That is how you got your lower tax rates. Please go and actually check the state data. It is published. And yet again, Please quote your source for Tisbury's crazy expediture per student. Be very careful because the Department of Education lists up island school district as spending more per student than Tisbury. I did not make this, up. I got it from the DOE published data. West Tisbury is in that school reporting district. I might just keep checking everyone's false data claims for a full time job.
Really,
MikeD WTReally,
Really - No the tax increase will be for all to pay.
But in WT we don't get a reduction because we live there all year.
So because many other towns use the non resident taxes to pay their way for expensive irresponsible proposals makes it ok? - I think not.
You say many more are coming down the line - on the shoulders of the non residents who will benefit minimally. That's ok - right?
State data - Avg cost per student $14,525, - Tisbury $21,291 (sorry I used $22,000, my mistake for rounding), only 146% of the average, - WOW! seriously!!
Yes, other Island towns pay more, - a lot per student.
Get a grip on what you can afford, - don't run up your credit card bill and then say you can't pay it.
Oh, I get it, non residents can pay it for no benefit at a higher tax rate.
So right.
So proper.
So incomprehensibly wrong.
Get real.
In Massachusetts, ten new
FinneganIn Massachusetts, ten new middle (grades 6-8) schools were approved with a project start date on or after January 1, 2014 with project costs ranging from $44.5 million to $110.7 million. Our school would have cost $30 million and serve students grades preschool through 8th grade. I am so over hearing about inflated cost.
Need more information, like
Ken Edg.Need more information, like population and student enrollment on that please.
A personal pet peeve of mine
Incensed VHA personal pet peeve of mine is being underestimated. Ms. Loberg and Mr. Israel anticipated the parent population would put smiles on our faces and happily drop our kids off at the Tisbury School for the next (how many???) years until a renovation project is initiated. You are gravely mistaken. You underestimated us in our advocacy for our children.
“The responsibility to
justme Tisbury“The responsibility to preserve the pillars of our democracy falls to each and every one of us, and no one gets a pass because of their party affiliation.” — Sally Yates, deputy attorney general in the Obama administration.
...and no one gets a pass based on how they voted, whether they voted, and if they understood what they were voting on. Time to move forward with an upgrade and addition.
Pretty easy to get some of
Really?! Vineyard HavenPretty easy to get some of this info. Natick just approved (February 2018) a new middle school to house 641 current middle schooler students at a projected cost of 110 million. Town meeting vote was 123 to 1 and it was 5 to 1 at the ballot. By the way, they are replacing a school built in 1965 with failing systems. A full renovation which they did not feel met the educational needs was estimated at 112 million. I am tired of doing everyone else's homework. Check it for yourselves. They get economies of scale we don't and get materials trucked in on the Mass pike. We have barges and SSA. I am sure there are bargains out there in some other data points ...this was just the easiest to find.
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