<p>As a months-long review by the Martha’s Vineyard Commission of expansion plans for the Vineyard Haven Stop & Shop continues, members of the commission expressed frustration late this week with the lack of progress.</p> <p>And spokesmen for the international grocery chain told the commission that they have reduced the size of the plans as much as they can.</p>
As a months-long review by the Martha’s Vineyard Commission of expansion plans for the Vineyard Haven Stop & Shop continues, members of the commission expressed frustration late this week with the lack of progress.
And spokesmen for the international grocery chain told the commission that they have reduced the size of the plans as much as they can.
“Going any smaller than this doesn’t make any sense to Stop & Shop,” attorney Geoghan Coogan, the Vineyard attorney representing the company, told the MVC at a public hearing Thursday night. He said they are still open to design changes.
It marked the fourth public hearing before the commission which is reviewing the plan as a development of regional impact (DRI). The first hearing opened in July. A fifth hearing is now set for Nov. 21. To date most discussion has focused on size and scale of the project, located on Water street across from the main Steamship Authority terminal and half a block from the Five Corners intersection, a heavily congested area in the summer months.
The latest plan calls for a building of just under 30,000 square feet, nearly triple the size of the existing store. A sales floor of about 16,000 square feet would be on the second floor, and a 41-space parking garage on the first floor.
In addition to size and scale, traffic impacts, and economic impacts for downtown Vineyard Haven are points of concern before the MVC.
The plans have been reduced in size by 15 per cent since the initial application, and the building has been moved back 15 feet from Water street.
Commissioner John Breckenridge suggested an informal committee composed of architects to work on the architectural details.
But commissioner Lenny Jason Jr. said that would be premature. “So we haven’t heard anything about the traffic, how many people are unemployed while its being built, anything about the Steamship Authority, nothing about the staging area, nothing about how it’s going to impact the rest of the Tisbury businesses and we’re already saying yes, it’s fine?” he said.
Commissioner Ned Orleans agreed. “The impression we’ve been giving is that subject to changing a few curlicues here and there we’re almost ready to say okay,” he said.
Commissioner Erik Hammarlund said the commission was just answering questions about whether the proposal would be turned down because of size.
But Mr. Jason said the process has dragged on. “We’re wasting an awful lot of time on this stuff,” he said.
Mr. Coogan said the developers have responded to concerns. “We have brought the store in, in terms of the size and the scope, as much as they can do. That was our charge and I think we have listened,” he said.
Other members of the commission raised concerns about the process. Traffic and parking concerns have been off the table for the last two public hearings as the commission focused on other issues and waited to get the appropriate information. The next public hearing will be dedicated to traffic and parking.
“I don’t know how many of these meetings we’ll have if we keep going and going,” said commissioner Clarence (Trip) Barnes 3rd.
Commission chairman Fred Hancock said the commission has clarity now on architectural plans and can move on to other issues. “We can reasonably now look at the traffic, the building impacts, all the rest of the things you just talked about,” he said.
“I think they substantially answered the architecture question,” commissioner Linda Sibley said. “They’ve told us this is essentially what it’s going to be. Now we move on to our next problem, which is traffic.” She continued:
“We can’t just keep having hearings over and over and over again . . . on the minor details of the architecture until we’ve looked at the whole thing. Personally we haven’t gotten to the elephant in the room which is traffic, so how long are we going to be talking about what the building looks like?”
Mr. Jason called it death by a thousand cuts.
“Then we’re going to listen to traffic and then two weeks from that we’re going to listen to something else,” he said. “That’s not a good way to do business.”
Comments
If Stop & Shop gives up on
Neil Off IslandIf Stop & Shop gives up on the expansion, the island will be left with an undersized and understocked grocery store in Vineyard Haven and there will still be a traffic problem. The traffic problem is for the Islanders to figure out and solve, not Stop & Shop.
The elephant in the room is
nancy Vineyard HavenThe elephant in the room is the S & S being in the worst possible location. Why not go back to the drawing board and build it up on the old Helio's property. Out of town and less traffic near the docks. BTW, maybe move the post office up there too......
That is the real solution.
Lynne Brook EdgartownThat is the real solution.
Cars coming off the boat, shoppers exiting lot, pedestrians - & heaven forbid an ambulance or emergency vehicle needs to come through!
Location location.
Completely agree. Either stop
DanCompletely agree. Either stop and shop should move or the steam ship. Horrible town planning. And the town should at least require the multi million dollar corporation to use their own property for parking. Why is tisbury providing town property to this corporation for parking but not to any other island businesses? There are many flaws at work here. Now is the chance to fix them, or ask them to walk away.
I heard a group of people
Mark Vineyard HavenI heard a group of people talking about that at the Black Dog these week, that is quite a great Idea, having a bigger store up on State road and a smaller market at Water street.
why don't we hear about these at the MVC meetings.
The real elephant in the room
Nancy Vineyard HavenThe real elephant in the room is S & S staying in it's current location. Let's go back to the drawing board and build a larger store up on the former Helio's property, for example. The downtown S & S complex could be turned into attractive mixed use complex, with shopping, dining and residences.
And people would park where?
Neil Off IslandAnd people would park where?
S and s underground parking.
DanS and s underground parking.
Stop & Shop is building a
Robby K Oak BluffsStop & Shop is building a store that ensures THEY expand business by taking away from smaller stores in Vineyard Haven and up-Island. They can talk all they want about doing this for the community. Designing a building that moderately looks like it could fit in the community.
offering greater variety, offering rest rooms and rest areas for the public. This is about increasing their bottom line. Bottom line, they control the waterfront. Stop & Shop should seriously consider building one market near the high school. Give those precious pieces of land to expand a true waterfront area with small shops and restaurants. What they are offering is a monstrosity and the island will be stuck for the next 100 years with this white elephant.
Yes, because everyone on this
Ken Esq Edgartown, MAYes, because everyone on this island can afford $6 for a dozen eggs and turkey at $7.50/lb. How about the Stop & Shop is the only place on the island where middle class families even have a shot at being able to afford to shop.
As for small shops and restaurants? How many more T-Shirt shops do we need? How many more overpriced restaurants and coffee shops? Shouldn't people have the opportunity to walk/bike to essential markets, post office, pharmacies? What makes the Vineyard special is that it's not totally a tourist destination. It's not Nantucket.
BTW, where are all the people going to park at your waterfront? Oh, wait...they'll just come off their yachts.
Let's look at the rest of the existing street. There's a pizza place, the Black Dog has two shops...there's the lovely abandoned eyesore next to the Stop and Shop and then the oh-so-pretty car rental location. Stop and Shop's plans will be the one truly nice place on that entire street and will serve the Island community...yep...let's delay, delay, delay that happening and maybe we can end up with another vacant building like the theaters in Oak Bluffs...that certainly helps business.
It seems that most of the
TIM Vineyard HavenIt seems that most of the comments are asking that they move locations, rather than expand somewhere so congested. I suppose S&S is planning on ferry traffic to stop, and shop. Agreed that an architectural clean up would be positive and the new building is attractive as far as retail complexes go. Always have to be careful to protect the smaller merchants, though, and "big box" always takes business away from everyone else. Too bad they can't do "small to medium box."
KenEsq,
RobbyK Oak BluffsKenEsq,
To answer your question, there is a Stop & Shop on island. There is a Cumberland Farms, there is a Reliable and TWO Cronigs.
If the space current Stop & Shop occupies were to be developed into shops & restaurants the parking would be right there. The municiple lot that is often thought to be owned by Stop & Shop is not. It's public! And congestion would be eased incredibly if Stop & Shop moved out. We don't need more T-shops, but we could use more shops of variety that would attract business. Vineyard Haven is on a lifeline. This Summers nights were quiet, the streets were bare. Ask ANY Main Street or Union Street business. Summer 2013 was horrible. Thank God for a decent Fall. Vineyard Haven needs to wake up, look at Edgartown & Oak Bluffs and see how WELL they attract people, especially families. I respect your opinion KrnESQ, but disagree wholeheartedly.
I am gratified that Stop &
Dennis Sarni Vineyard HavenI am gratified that Stop & Shop is diligently working with the MV Commission to simultaneously expand (to bring more grocery options at sensible prices), while helping to mitigate traffic problems (with a parking garage)and beautify the existing area. The traffic problems at 5 Corners begins and ends with funneling all traffic through an uncontrolled intersection. I have long believed we could reduce traffic and beautify the area by creating a modified traffic circle (rotary) at 5 Corners by taking part of the car rental lot and the unnecessarily large side walk in front of the Post Office. Two way traffic on Union Street (lose 6 parking spaces) would also help a great deal
Cumberland Farms is a grocery
Ken Esq Edgartown, MACumberland Farms is a grocery store? That's a real stretch. Cronig's is completely un-affordable for middle class families as are most of the boutique markets in and around town.
It's funny, you say you want more shops there to increase business...yet on the other hand you claim that Stop & Shop causes congestion. Markets are generally thought of as an anchor to a successful business area. They attract people. Please let us know what types of shops you think belong there that would help Vineyard Haven and the Island, especially full-year residents and would also be able to survive financially?
There certainly is no shortage of restaurants on the island. Any more and that's really going to hurt the businesses you seem to be worried about.
Seriously, if you want to attract families you have to have local, affordable essential services. Good schools (that we have), affordable Supermarkets, Pharmacies, Clothing, Banks, and affordable entertainment options. Without the Stop & Shop in Vineyard Haven where would a family shop? Edgartown? The Reliable Market is small and really has no parking and as I said earlier Cronig's is too expensive.
To me, Martha's Vineyard is special because it's not just another tourist destination. There's a real community here, but it seems that more and more the services that are essential to support that community are being chased away in favor of high-priced tourist shopping and dining. Stop & Shop is an essential service and to expect people living in Vineyard Haven to drive to the Edgartown store which is also over capacity much of the year isn't really fair.
You forgot about tisbury
DanYou forgot about tisbury market. Tisbury market has prices even lower than stop and shop and They sell island farmed produce as well- which helps support our community, something stop and shop does little if none of.
If you really cared about price, and community, you would support island farmers and local grocery. Again, tisbury market competes very well with stop and shop prices. Check it out. I was surprised.
Does a town as small as tisbury really need three markets?
Is this location really necessary on just convienent for stop and shop because they Get To Use Town Property For Their Own Parking?
As a tisbury resident, you are helping to subsidize those lower prices by providing their parking with tax payer dollars. strange isn't it?
I believe this is a corporation who has bested the town for a While now by, "providing a much needed service".
It's time for stop and shop to stand on their own feet, without the assistance of town propertyor tax payers.
if they can't do it like the rest of us, then get it.
Dan, Tisbury market is nice
Ken Esq Edgartown, MADan, Tisbury market is nice and they offer good products, but it's also pretty expensive. I believe they were charging $6 for a dozen eggs last time I was there and over $5 for a gallon of milk.
Unfortunately, not everyone who lives here can afford to pay those prices when they have a family to feed. Places like Tisbury market are also constrained by size and can't really carry much variety. This doesn't make them bad, but they're just not a viable alternative for many that live here.
Perhaps it would be better if everyone that couldn't afford prices like those at Cronig's, Morning Glory Farm, Alley's, Tisbury Market, etc. just went off island? Would that be helping the community because that's the only realistic alternative.
Stop and Shop does support the local community as does every other business by paying property taxes. Should they make the improvements they're talking about they will end up paying even more in taxes. They also employ many people and an enlarged store would provide even more employment for Island workers. Oh, and like many other companies they also participate in charitable programs with local non-profits and schools.
As for your comment about parking...that's absurd as part of the proposal includes a parking garage and a public bathroom. Originally, they were going to also take responsibility for the public lot as well.
I'm not going to tell you that the Ahold corporation or Stop & Shop is the greatest supermarket or the most giving company, but at the present time they are the only grocery store (with the possible exception of Reliable) on the island that comes close to offering a wide variety of products at prices that a middle class family have a hope of being able to afford. They've made an effort to create a nice looking building and to begin the rehabilitation of an entire street that's a real eyesore. They're also showing a willingness to work with the Island community on the design.
eggs at Tisbury Farm Market
Mark Vineyard Haveneggs at Tisbury Farm Market is $2.39 the $6 is for free range Island eggs
Just today I was talking to a
Mark Vineyard HavenJust today I was talking to a friend, and he told me that he does park at Steamship and at the Post office and shops at SS, and never got a ticket. if SS is about the same size as the one in Edgartown, what would that do to these services?
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